There are solely a handful of Indian movies that defy the traditional description and invite the audiences right into a world that may solely be understood by expertise reasonably than clarification. One such movie is Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’. Set towards the bustling but remoted backdrop of Mumbai, this cinematic triumph transcends narrative boundaries to create one thing profound and deeply private. Via a shocking mixture of magical realism and grounded storytelling, it delves into themes of affection, loss, identification, and self-discovery. Aside from the storytelling, the cinematography by Ranabir Das, elevates the movie to an ethereal realm, capturing the stark contrasts of Mumbai’s city panorama with poetic finesse. The digital camera lingers on town’s chaos and quiet, utilizing mild and shadow to reflect the inside worlds of its characters.
The creative brilliance has not gone unnoticed, as ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT‘ has garnered widespread acclaim and a plethora of prestigious accolades on the worldwide pageant circuit. For Payal and Ranabir, this roaring success is one thing that they by no means imagined, as their focus was solely on telling an genuine and deeply private story. After profitable the Grand Prix accolade at this 12 months’s Cannes, the movie has solidified its place as a landmark in modern Indian cinema. It’s so sensible to see an Indian filmmaker garnering a lot success on the international degree, and turning into the first-ever feminine filmmaker from India to obtain a Best Director nod at the Golden Globes. Lately, I had the fortune of speaking to Payal Kapadia, and DOP Ranabir Das, about their movie and the way they created such a powerful world the place moments of magical realism are delivered to life by surreal imagery.
Payal Kapadia on the Cannes Movie Competition (Picture Credit score: Getty Photos)
Right here’s the FULL INTERVIEW:
Aayush Sharma: Congratulations on the unbelievable win for ‘All We Think about As Mild’. The previous few days should have been a whirlwind of feelings, from press engagements to screenings, culminating on this well-deserved triumph. How does it really feel to see all of the arduous work and keenness behind this movie being celebrated on such a grand stage? Has the magnitude of this achievement really sunk in but?
Payal Kapadia: It’s been actually greater than we ever imagined for the movie. After we had been in Cannes, it already felt so large. Each time one thing else occurs, we really feel like we need to pinch ourselves. We labored on the movie for a very long time—particularly the 2 of us (Payal and Ranabir Das), since we write collectively as effectively. It’s been a venture we’ve labored on, on and off, for nearly six or seven years, and intensely over the previous 4 years. Generally, you are feeling prefer it’s over, and that itself feels so bizarre.
Aayush Sharma: The town of Mumbai performs such a central position in your movie. How did you method portraying Mumbai not simply as a setting however as a personality in itself, with its heartbeat and tales?
Payal Kapadia: I believe it’s as a result of, you already know once you make a movie—or at the very least after I make a movie—it’s form of like a response to your environment. What forces itself into the movie is one thing that considerations you or one thing you see on a regular basis, and also you get bothered by it. The contradictions of Mumbai, I believe, are very a lot a part of our each day life. For the previous 5 years, we now have been dwelling right here collectively. On one facet, you see all people shifting right here—particularly within the movie trade—as a result of all our mates from FTII additionally moved to Mumbai. In some senses, it’s form of liberating as a result of you could have your individual form of freedom right here to do issues. However it’s additionally a metropolis that may be very merciless. It’s a really costly metropolis, not very comfy to navigate or journey in day-after-day, contemplating the period of time it takes. There’s additionally fixed gentrification going down. It’s a metropolis that’s all the time in a state of change as a result of the individuals who include plenty of problem will also be very simply made to go away. We particularly noticed that in the course of the COVID time. It’s additionally a metropolis that’s geographically altering as a result of it’s like an island metropolis that grew to become hooked up to the peninsula. And now, land reclamation can also be going down. So even bodily, town is like an amoeba. I used to be very fascinated by all these items concerning the metropolis, and a few of it makes us very offended additionally.
Ranabir Das: Basically, Mumbai is a metropolis the place so many movies are shot. However in only a few movies will we really see town. We simply wished to doc some senses of now—a time now—that can stay someplace.
Payal Kapadia: As a result of I believe that Mohammad Ali Highway, that space, may also someday get gentrified and be shot. And I really feel like we wished to additionally keep in mind totally different, totally different locations.
Aayush Sharma: The shift from the bustling city panorama of Mumbai to the serene coastal village marks a major tonal change. How did you conceptualize this transition, and what does it signify within the bigger context of the story?
Ranabir Das: Properly, on some ranges, it’s very fundamental. Like, we simply wished a shift, a change in season. Yeah. Somewhat little bit of time has passed by between the earlier occasions and what’s to observe. In that sense, the most important shift, I believe, is that the primary half could be very cloudy, and the second half could be very vivid solar. The colour palette additionally shifts within the course of. However we wished the second half to have a barely totally different feeling of time as effectively. We wished it to be only one lengthy day, this complete second half. So we wished to really feel the time a bit of bit extra. We wished to be a bit of nearer to the characters. Within the metropolis, we all the time included town a bit of bit within the background or in some airplane. There’s all the time some presence of town creeping in. However over right here, we wished to be bodily nearer to the characters and be with them extra.
Payal Kapadia: The kind of this village, however our intention at the very least was to someplace keep away from taking a look at that an excessive amount of, okay, and being with the character. Yeah, like that’s why most—at the very least what we tried, I don’t know the way a lot of it got here by—however plenty of time, Riku would bleach out among the background when it was a really broad shot, for instance, as a result of the daylight wouldn’t form of, you already know, simply follow that cliche of a reasonably place. One thing that, you already know, that warmth—I don’t know if you’re from Delhi, however I suppose in Delhi additionally, in the summertime, that very prime solar is like, it’s not very nice. In order that feeling, we wished to form of get. I believe, yeah, as a result of Mumbai seems to be so totally different, I believe that distinction has been a lot.
Kani Kusruti as Prabha and Divya Prabha as Any in ‘All We Think about As Mild’ (Picture Credit score: Spirit Media)
Aayush Sharma: The movie opens with a documentary-style montage of road scenes and migrant voices. How did your background in documentary filmmaking form this method, and what was your intent behind mixing this model with fiction?
Payal Kapadia: You recognize, like, I believe each of us are very process-driven filmmakers. So plenty of time, we find yourself doing plenty of analysis and, you already know, not even simply analysis—after we go for location scouting, you sit, you chat with folks, you could have chai, you eat, or we simply meet folks for the sake of, you already know, understanding issues higher. Whereas doing that, we had been getting plenty of totally different tales from folks—folks had been telling us, and our mates had been additionally telling us. So we wished to maintain the essence of these conversations by some means within the movie, although we didn’t know the way. I believe it was the identical with our earlier movie too—like, plenty of the stuff that’s there comes out later due to interactions with actuality. You’ll be able to think about some issues, you write sure issues, you could have a script, and every little thing, after which actuality comes and says, ‘Whats up,’ which is sweet. I actually take pleasure in that, and I believe we actually take pleasure in that. So we wished to maintain a sense of these conversations and random interactions. We additionally felt like by some means it gave a form of symphony of town, with all of the folks right here. It’s a metropolis made up of individuals from totally different components of the state, and totally different components of the nation, and also you hear so many languages in Mumbai. It’s a really various house. So we wished to have a jhalak of that within the movie.
Ranabir Das: Additionally, we felt that it was one thing that was treating it like there are such a lot of tales floating round, and we’re getting into one in every of them. Only one factor we’re delving into deeper, after which that fiction additionally turns into a bit of bit extra actual after that.
Aayush Sharma: The movie is devoted to your grandmother and your good friend who’s a nurse. How did their lives and experiences encourage the story of All We Think about as Mild, and what private connections formed your method to telling this story?
Payal Kapadia: For me, my grandmother’s story has been a nagging string for all my movies to this point. Each movie has this copy in it. All my brief movies have it. Principally, when she was in her 90s, she began shedding her reminiscence. So, I informed her, simply to form of maintain the thoughts shifting, ‘Why don’t you write a diary?’ So, she began writing the diary. And by some means, within the diary, this husband of hers used to maintain showing. Now, she was 97 or 96 or one thing like this. Her husband died when she was 50. So, all these years, she was single. However presently, it was he who was popping out, coming in her goals and coming virtually like an individual, like a ghost, and was annoying her. So, she was very irritated. I believe she didn’t get together with him very a lot. So, I used to be pondering loads about that, like this sort of factor that plenty of ladies round me—like they’re impartial, they’re dwelling alone, working jobs, financially impartial—however these males don’t appear to go. So, I used to be pondering loads about that, and like, form of, you already know, that our concepts in India, we now have to take a look at our feminism in a approach, maintaining these sorts of issues in thoughts. At the very least for me, that is my perspective. Everyone has their very own. So, like, it’s these lingering males who we don’t need them to outline us, however they’re there. Now, what to do? So, that’s form of what this movie is about. Like, this Prabha additionally, you already know, form of attempting to go away this chap who simply popped up out of nowhere. So, yeah, that’s it.
For the nurse, she was very open to telling me all concerning the early…like, all these things about studying concerning the placenta, how their coaching was once. So, that’s what bought me into the nursing career—it’s due to all this. She used to inform me about the way it was for them once they had been college students and, you already know, the form of issues on a day-to-day foundation, the way it was. So, I bought very…like, she was very open to maintain telling me. I’d WhatsApp her saying, ‘Is that this clinically right?’ and all that. Very beneficiant with that—consulting all the knowledge and the nursing tales. Many nurses have helped on this, and we did so many interviews, however she was one of many first folks I spoke to.
Aayush Sharma: Riku, I wanted to grasp, and clarify to me like I’m a 10-year-old. For you, attending to know concerning the characters, struggles, and every little thing else, play a major position in utilizing sure visible strategies, like lighting and all.
Ranabir Das: Sure, completely. It’s not solely about what a personality is feeling or going by nowadays but additionally concerning the bigger imaginative and prescient of how a director desires the story to be informed. So, with every venture I undertake, I make a aware effort to be as true and trustworthy to the essence of that venture as attainable. It’s about making certain that the character’s journey, feelings, and experiences resonate with the general narrative and the director’s artistic imaginative and prescient.
Aayush Sharma: The vast majority of the movie is in Malayalam, reflecting the truth that many nurses in Mumbai come from Kerala. As somebody who didn’t develop up talking the language, how did you navigate the problem of authentically portraying this linguistic and cultural context? What steps did you are taking to make sure that the nuances of Malayalam-speaking characters had been captured with depth and accuracy?
Payal Kapadia: I’ve to say, it was powerful, and took additional time to get this proper. However I had Robin Pleasure and Naseem, my dialogue writers, who’re each from Kerala and in addition filmmakers. I really met Robin at FTII, and I’ve all the time preferred his writing and brief movies. I wished to work with him as a result of I felt we related effectively emotionally, politically, and when it comes to our social contexts. So, I introduced him on board virtually two years in the past, in 2022. He then started rewriting the dialogues primarily based on how we had mentioned the characters. For instance, we determined that Anu can be from Palakkad, so we adjusted her accent and even integrated her particular slang. We additionally labored on how the characters would talk on WhatsApp, utilizing that Gen Z model of texting. Robin and Naseem really devoted a complete 12 months to rewriting and refining the dialogues.
After we labored with the actors, we’d re-examine the dialogues collectively. The actors would ship their strains, and we’d hearken to the recordings to listen to how they sounded. This course of was important as a result of, in any other case, how would I direct in a language I don’t totally perceive, proper? We did plenty of rehearsals to assist me get a way of what they had been saying and the way it felt. With Robin’s experience, he’d level out if one thing didn’t sound fairly proper, which was extremely useful. Having somebody like him by my facet made the entire course of smoother and extra genuine.
Aayush Sharma: All We Think about as Mild is a deeply political movie, but a lot of the dialogue round it focuses on its aesthetics or limits its politics to an Indian context, overlooking its common relevance. Have you ever observed this, and the way do you are feeling about such interpretations?
Ranabir Das: We’ve tried in our personal approach, although I’m undecided how efficiently it comes by or to what extent we’ve been proper or not. However we’ve tried to incorporate some parts. I believe that, typically, any movie you watch is political, whether or not the filmmakers supposed it to be or not. You’ll be able to learn into it, and also you’ll discover issues which might be, in some methods, political. In that sense, there are positively points of this movie which might be extra straight political, however every little thing else additionally turns into one thing to interpret and perceive. Finally, everybody may have their very own interpretation.
Payal Kapadia: Yeah, true. However I believe some issues are so deeply rooted for us, just like the context of the papers and the connection, or among the little issues we’ve stored within the movie that we haven’t even subtitled. I really feel like there’s all the time this stability between explaining issues and permitting folks to really feel them. And we’re all the time scuffling with this stability—how a lot to clarify or for which viewers. So, on the finish of the day, that is the stability we’ve discovered for this movie. We’ll see the way it goes with the subsequent one. However yeah, many individuals don’t totally perceive our nation. There are such a lot of issues right here, so many contexts, so many layers. Some folks even ask me if we communicate “Indian,” and I’m like, no! So, what can we do? Even throughout the nation, the humanities typically characterize only one voice and one opinion. Interpretation will all the time be totally different. I believe even inside our nation, a movie about Delhi can be seen otherwise by somebody who’s by no means been there or lived there. All of these items are true, and one in every of my targets was to keep away from falling into clichés about nursing, the characters, or anything. They’re simply folks. There’s nothing you possibly can label as clichéd about their identification. That was one thing I believed loads about, however once more, that’s the great thing about cinema. You create one thing, then you definately see how folks react and study from it, understanding what you probably did and all the time striving to do higher, I suppose.
Divya Prabha and Hridhu Haroon in a nonetheless from ‘All We Imagined As Mild’ (Picture Credit score: Spirit Media)
Aayush Sharma: You’re fairly energetic on social media, particularly on Twitter. Lately, you talked concerning the unsuitable facet ratio in theatres. What occurred there?
Payal Kapadia: Don’t make me cry. please. (laughs) However since I posted it on Twitter, at the very least individuals are speaking about it. I’ve observed that individuals are going, and the courageous ones are stopping the projection. I don’t perceive that—so many movies have to be shot in 1.85:1 at the very least.
Aayush Sharma: Mr. Hansal Mehta, the director, mentioned on social media {that a} film like ‘All We Think about As Mild’ is failing to get help from streaming platforms. Was that true? and what did you study from that course of?
Ranabir Das: In our case, there’s some curiosity from streaming platforms that producers are taking a look at.
Payal Kapadia: However the issue is that in our case, since we’re releasing in so many nations, we are able to’t do a world sale. This makes streaming platforms a bit hesitant, I suppose—it’s a problem for them as all of them need worldwide attain. And we actually wished a launch time. We wished the movie to be in cinemas for an extended length, in order that was one of many factors I put forth—what I may say on this matter. However the different factor you’re stating, distribution is an actual downside. This 12 months, there have been so many movies from India at Cannes. Administrators of Indian origin, my batchmate Maisa Malli’s movie was there in ACID. It’s a very nice movie, and I believe it was at MAMI as effectively. We’re getting consideration within the information and every little thing, however there have been so many movies there. There was Sister of Midnight, there was Santosh, and Women Will Be Women, which I believe has carried out fairly effectively however didn’t get a cinema launch. So I believe we should always discover a strategy to watch our personal nation’s movies within the cinema, even when they’re small. Why can’t we get one slot a day for these movies? Why aren’t exhibitors prepared to take that problem? Anyway, they’ve multiplexes, to allow them to present the large films, and in the event that they present one smaller movie as soon as a month, it might be excellent. The way in which she makes movies is unbelievable, so on her personal, and the movies are improbable. I believe so many individuals would take pleasure in watching them, like schoolchildren. They may do outings and take all the children from some colleges to the cinema. The cinemas may supply discounted costs too.
Ranabir: I really feel that these sorts of interactive issues might be a strategy to maintain folks engaged from a younger age and encourage vital pondering. Cinema can do this as effectively. And concerning your preliminary query about OTT, it’s turning into an more and more tough market typically. When it first got here in, it appeared like there was scope for impartial cinema. There was additionally some sum of money that filmmakers and producers may entry.
Picture Credit score: Rediff
Aayush Sharma: Each the movies that you’re a a part of are principally impartial movies. For All We Think about As Mild, you noticed loads backing developing after the film gained at Cannes. Then, Rana Daggubatti bought concerned in it. As somebody who’s deeply concerned on this film, did you see any form of distinction in how the film was taken to theatres or distributors as soon as an individual like Rana bought into the method?
Ranabir Das: Sure, I imply, he additionally has a distribution firm, so in that sense, he is aware of the exhibitors, he understands the market. I don’t know if it’s merely due to his begin, however yeah, as a distributor, he positively has some quantity of expertise and information on this space.
Payal Kapadia: I believe it actually helped us as a result of he has, particularly within the south, plenty of connections. They arrive from a household of distribution, and he’s additionally placing weight behind the movie. See, we don’t have the finances for giant posters or to place it on a bus, and even to have it within the cinema. There weren’t any extra conventional strategies like that. So, speaking to the press and having him there to help was form of our strategy to attain out.
Aayush Sharma: You’ve beforehand highlighted the challenges of securing funding for impartial movies in India. May you share extra about your experiences navigating this panorama and the way it formed the journey of bringing ‘All We Think about as Mild’ to life?
Ranabir Das: I imply, initially, it was a bit scary as a result of we didn’t really know if the movie would ever get made. However our producers gave us some quantity of confidence, and we confronted a number of rejections as effectively. Nevertheless, as we began getting extra funds and the script started creating additional, we began receiving extra money. With that, we felt extra assured, and we realized that it was a system that helped us.
Payal Kapadia: One factor we realized all through this course of is what a producer really is. At the very least within the West, a producer isn’t somebody who has their very own cash or an organization with funds, however reasonably, they’re those who can form your venture in a approach that lets you safe funding from different sources. It’s actually a collaboration. They may learn the venture and, in the event that they consider in it, they gained’t simply agree with you—they are going to belief their opinion and supply their help. It’s vital to seek out somebody whose judgment you belief and who additionally believes in you, and who will say, “Okay, let’s do that. No matter occurs, we’ll make it occur.” We acquired plenty of that form of motivation, even from our producer right here in India. He did his greatest to get the movie off the bottom, discovering the suitable folks for us to work with, and we ended up with a improbable workforce of collaborators. All of that’s what makes the movie what it’s—not only one individual, however the collective effort of many individuals coming collectively.
Aayush Sharma: I had the pleasure of interviewing Kani Kusruti, and he or she informed me that you just (Payal) had envisioned her as Anu. So, how did the change occur?
Payal Kapadia: Yeah, again then, after I was nonetheless a pupil, I wrote about two pages of an idea for the movie, a free thought about two mates who had been nurses. However I hadn’t carried out a lot analysis at the moment. It was only a fundamental thought, and I wished to make a 20-minute movie about it. At the moment, I had seen her brief movie Recollections of a Machine, and I actually preferred her efficiency in it, so we wished to solid her as Anu. Nevertheless, I made a decision to not pursue it for FTII as a result of I felt there was nonetheless loads I wanted to grasp earlier than making this movie. I didn’t really feel like I had the suitable connection on the time, so I let it go. After that, I began researching, assembly extra folks, gathering tales, and ultimately realized it needed to be a characteristic movie. And that, after all, takes time. So I’d work on it, then go away it, come again to it, and make one other movie in between. All through all this, I stored sending Kanni the script.
I believed I may not have the ability to do it at a youthful age. Each of us had gotten older, and we had been the identical age, so I puzzled, what may I do? However then she mentioned, “Let me attempt for the older one.” Nonetheless, I believe I used to be so fixated on her being Anu that it was initially arduous for me to just accept that she may play the older model. However she’s simply such a advantageous artist, an exquisite actor, and extremely hardworking. It’s wonderful. She is so inspiring, and I really feel so fortunate to have met her.
Ranabir Das: You recognize, for Anu, we had seen Divya in ‘Declaration’. Yeah, yeah. And she or he was taking part in an older character in that movie, so we initially considered her as Prabha.
The solid and crew of ‘All We Think about As Mild’ (Picture Credit score: Getty Photos)
Aayush Sharma: The movie makes use of magical realism and lyrical parts within the second half. How do you see this mixing of realism and fantasy as a strategy to discover the inside worlds of your characters?
Payal Kapadia: Properly, I wished to go from this very day-in-the-life model of metropolis folks, utilizing broad photographs of a metropolis with a shaky digital camera, to go deeper and deeper, till we reached such a detailed level that we may seize the feel of the pores and skin, the hair on the physique, and the grain of sand. We wished to method it as if we had been utilizing a microscope, the place we first present a large shot after which funnel right down to one thing as small because the grain of sand on a person’s physique. The transition from that vérité model to one thing like magical realism felt pure, turning into extra inside. I used to be pondering loads about find out how to categorical want, as in our society, it’s not one thing you speak about. How do you say “I like you” in English? How do you say it in case you haven’t mentioned it but? It’s tough. We will’t categorical these items simply. So I believed, cinematically, how will she hear it, or what’s going to she say? Cinema permits us to talk with out talking. I wished to discover a language in our personal strategy to speak about sure issues, and this gave the impression to be the suitable approach, a magical one. I used to be pondering loads about how this had been carried out previously.
In Rajasthan, Gujarat, or Karnataka on the western coast, folks tales typically inform tales about longing and the boys who go away as retailers. There’s plenty of journey and many ladies’s tales about how they can not discuss to their husbands. One well-known one is Duvida, the place the husband comes again as a ghost, and he or she falls in love with him, however ultimately, he will get caught. There are tales the place the person turns into a tree or a thief. Sangam poetry additionally makes use of nature to speak about longing. I used to be enthusiastic about all these items, in addition to a brief story by Márquez I learn the place a person washes up in a village. Whereas he’s handed out, the ladies begin saying issues like, ‘Oh, he’s so good-looking,’ or, ‘His household should have made large doorways in the home as a result of he’s so tall,’ creating their very own tales. Their wishes are projected onto the useless man. So I used to be on this thought of not with the ability to communicate, and the way we begin projecting issues and discover a strategy to launch that ache. In my head, all of it simply made sense.
Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’ is taking part in worldwide.
